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	<title>Comments on: This is what happens when you blindly outsource to India (keyword: blindly)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/</link>
	<description>A blog about killer code</description>
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		<title>By: Bart Mclaurine</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-3/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Mclaurine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>Hello dude Good afternoon.I am agree with your blog posting about that but i found something strange that i felt you did not know the main problem before you posting this so i want to ask :where do you know about this dude ? Regards owner of slareng.com  Good bye</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello dude Good afternoon.I am agree with your blog posting about that but i found something strange that i felt you did not know the main problem before you posting this so i want to ask :where do you know about this dude ? Regards owner of slareng.com  Good bye</p>
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		<title>By: Colleen</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-3/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>Colleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-477</guid>
		<description>HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!  and I have to disagree with that part about Indians only being good for boring tedious grunt work but don&#039;t ask them to think.  

That&#039;s what you&#039;re going to get ANYWHERE if you hire low paid unqualified people so you can sell their labor cheap, in India or anywhere else.  

But I LOVE this story:  It shows how you have 3 qualified people who basically completed the project on time give or take a week and were ready to do a test launch then you give it to these high priced &quot;user interface&quot; guys and the first thing they start doing is talking about the colors.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, UI is important, but it has very little to do with colors.   Any &quot;UI guy&quot; who talks about colors  first thing isn&#039;t a UI guy.    Then the original team leaves and the decision makers hire some new guys (who are marketing guys masquerading as web developers) and they Snafu the whole thing by exposing /etc/group and they use huge XML file because they can&#039;t figure out how to use a database!  OMG that is just TOO FUNNY!

The root problem of course and as usual is ignorant twits posing as managers and hiring their ignorant marketing-guy-posing as-web-developer friends.  The tools are such today that any fool can put crap up on the web and even make it superficially look like a functional website to those who can&#039;t tell the difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!  and I have to disagree with that part about Indians only being good for boring tedious grunt work but don&#8217;t ask them to think.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what you&#8217;re going to get ANYWHERE if you hire low paid unqualified people so you can sell their labor cheap, in India or anywhere else.  </p>
<p>But I LOVE this story:  It shows how you have 3 qualified people who basically completed the project on time give or take a week and were ready to do a test launch then you give it to these high priced &#8220;user interface&#8221; guys and the first thing they start doing is talking about the colors.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, UI is important, but it has very little to do with colors.   Any &#8220;UI guy&#8221; who talks about colors  first thing isn&#8217;t a UI guy.    Then the original team leaves and the decision makers hire some new guys (who are marketing guys masquerading as web developers) and they Snafu the whole thing by exposing /etc/group and they use huge XML file because they can&#8217;t figure out how to use a database!  OMG that is just TOO FUNNY!</p>
<p>The root problem of course and as usual is ignorant twits posing as managers and hiring their ignorant marketing-guy-posing as-web-developer friends.  The tools are such today that any fool can put crap up on the web and even make it superficially look like a functional website to those who can&#8217;t tell the difference.</p>
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		<title>By: eorganics</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-3/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>eorganics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-279</guid>
		<description>Well Sura i agree with you that if you are blind enough, anything can happen not just by outsourcing to India but any part of the world. So its not about one specific country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Sura i agree with you that if you are blind enough, anything can happen not just by outsourcing to India but any part of the world. So its not about one specific country.</p>
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		<title>By: Meenakshi</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Meenakshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-269</guid>
		<description>I moved to INDIA last year July and am back to The US to search for Companies who want to outsource work to INDIA. As i have worked for ten years in the US and for Companies like AT &amp; T and Dell Financial Services, i understand the quality of work tha needs to be delivered. The Team that i have set up specializes in LAMP technology Linux, Apache, mysql and PHP. I am positive that i will find enough wokr that i can develope in INDIA and deliver inthe US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I moved to INDIA last year July and am back to The US to search for Companies who want to outsource work to INDIA. As i have worked for ten years in the US and for Companies like AT &amp; T and Dell Financial Services, i understand the quality of work tha needs to be delivered. The Team that i have set up specializes in LAMP technology Linux, Apache, mysql and PHP. I am positive that i will find enough wokr that i can develope in INDIA and deliver inthe US.</p>
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		<title>By: vstar</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>vstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-261</guid>
		<description>I work for a major corp that has outsourced alot of jobs to Wipro.  They brag about never having layoffs of FTEs, but in truth they use these wipro contractors because they are cheap, there&#039;s hardly any benefit costs and they can get rid of them at a moments notice.  There are ALOT of contracters, but they count for nothing when the company gives the spin talk about &quot;the employees&quot;.  The truth is, it&#039;s resulted in the company becoming very lazy about the people side of management.  That seems to be human nature because you start to value less what is cheap, especially when there is an endless supply.  I am a longtime employee and the culture has changed completely.  I know when I leave I would not be replaced by an american because jobs are not back-filled.  Not that contractors are treated well.  They are kept seperate from FTEs and most don&#039;t even get cubicles, just these little slots to sit in - which I think some factory farmed animals have more room.  The whole scene is depressing.  But never underestimate a corporation&#039;s ability to spin (aka lie).  We recently had &quot;celebrate diversity&quot; day!!  It would be diverse if they ever hire an American again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work for a major corp that has outsourced alot of jobs to Wipro.  They brag about never having layoffs of FTEs, but in truth they use these wipro contractors because they are cheap, there&#8217;s hardly any benefit costs and they can get rid of them at a moments notice.  There are ALOT of contracters, but they count for nothing when the company gives the spin talk about &#8220;the employees&#8221;.  The truth is, it&#8217;s resulted in the company becoming very lazy about the people side of management.  That seems to be human nature because you start to value less what is cheap, especially when there is an endless supply.  I am a longtime employee and the culture has changed completely.  I know when I leave I would not be replaced by an american because jobs are not back-filled.  Not that contractors are treated well.  They are kept seperate from FTEs and most don&#8217;t even get cubicles, just these little slots to sit in &#8211; which I think some factory farmed animals have more room.  The whole scene is depressing.  But never underestimate a corporation&#8217;s ability to spin (aka lie).  We recently had &#8220;celebrate diversity&#8221; day!!  It would be diverse if they ever hire an American again.</p>
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		<title>By: mrunalini</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>mrunalini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-259</guid>
		<description>If Indians screw up code and Americans are used to fix it up, that means outsourcing to dumbos help bring economic balance and generate more employment :D :D :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Indians screw up code and Americans are used to fix it up, that means outsourcing to dumbos help bring economic balance and generate more employment :D :D :D</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 04:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-231</guid>
		<description>Is this the place where angry and inept people leave their comments?  I thought I was in the proper queue, but I lost my spot during the stampede after some guy complained about his company outsourcing important work to India.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this the place where angry and inept people leave their comments?  I thought I was in the proper queue, but I lost my spot during the stampede after some guy complained about his company outsourcing important work to India.</p>
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		<title>By: pkp</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>pkp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-193</guid>
		<description>To jkojs:

You perhaps never thought to consider the fact that perhaps your business colleagues contributed to the mess? Or did you take it for granted that since your business colleagues are American that they couldn&#039;t possibly have messed up?

And even if your business colleagues did absolutely nothing to mess things up, you cannot quote their experience as THE definitive experience and extrapolate widely based on that.

If your implication that ALL Indians are screwups is right, then how do you explain this: a lot of big leading American firms have Indians working for them in key leadership roles. Many of these Indians were educated in India and only traveled overseas on work. Many of they people have played critical roles in developing the flagship products of these companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To jkojs:</p>
<p>You perhaps never thought to consider the fact that perhaps your business colleagues contributed to the mess? Or did you take it for granted that since your business colleagues are American that they couldn&#8217;t possibly have messed up?</p>
<p>And even if your business colleagues did absolutely nothing to mess things up, you cannot quote their experience as THE definitive experience and extrapolate widely based on that.</p>
<p>If your implication that ALL Indians are screwups is right, then how do you explain this: a lot of big leading American firms have Indians working for them in key leadership roles. Many of these Indians were educated in India and only traveled overseas on work. Many of they people have played critical roles in developing the flagship products of these companies.</p>
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		<title>By: jkojs</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>jkojs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Never outsource to INDIA. My business colleagues had very bad experiences. The Indian programmers dont follow IT standards, write crappy code with full of IF ELSE statements etc.

No wonder MICROSOFT corp which started hiring lots of Indian programmers for the past few years has their product quality going down. If APPLE corp starts to hire Indian programmers, then it will also lose its design competence.

THE REALITY-
OUTSOURCING TO EASTERN EUROPE, EAST ASIA IS MUCH MUCH BETTER THEN TO INDIA.

NEVER EVER OUTSOURCE TO INDIA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never outsource to INDIA. My business colleagues had very bad experiences. The Indian programmers dont follow IT standards, write crappy code with full of IF ELSE statements etc.</p>
<p>No wonder MICROSOFT corp which started hiring lots of Indian programmers for the past few years has their product quality going down. If APPLE corp starts to hire Indian programmers, then it will also lose its design competence.</p>
<p>THE REALITY-<br />
OUTSOURCING TO EASTERN EUROPE, EAST ASIA IS MUCH MUCH BETTER THEN TO INDIA.</p>
<p>NEVER EVER OUTSOURCE TO INDIA.</p>
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		<title>By: RealMCCoy</title>
		<link>http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/2008/05/01/this-is-what-happens-when-you-blindly-outsource-to-india/comment-page-2/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>RealMCCoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jaisenmathai.com/blog/?p=26#comment-191</guid>
		<description>my 2 cents.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I work in one of the Big IT companies in India, but now I am sick and tired of their hiring policies. Read on 
Software companies in India are recruiting &quot;Lamers&quot; who don&#039;t have any experience..., wait a minute, they don&#039;t even know a thing about computer science. Don&#039;t believe me? Let me give you an example, a person hired straight from college as a software developer by a Big Indian IT Company (A Really Big One.. They have got the BT project... you know..!), he has been chosen as a developer on java, he came crying to me asking he can&#039;t figure out how to create an ODBC connection (in windows).  Can you believe this? I explained him the process with screen-shots from modemhelp.net( cause I was running Linux on my system so..). More surprises, he couln&#039;t differentiate Linux from windows (it was obvious, he had never ever seen a non-windows system in his life so far), so when he saw my terminal (I had Open-suse  with default KDE running on my system with a terminal/console open), he asked me to show him how to create the ODBC connection from the control panel... what a Lamer! People selected for .Net have no idea about what an web-server is and what is IIS.

People are hired from non-IT background and sometimes non-computer background (students from civil, mechanical, or electronics engineering) on the basis of merit tests where they ask questions like in the banking jobs(??). This is done intentionally so that they can force these lamers to work for peanuts for almost 12 hours a day regularly. Most of the time, lamers are overworked and underpaid and they don&#039;t have the skill to finish the job in an efficient manner. They are always frightened of losing their jobs and so they manage to finish their responsibility in every irresponsible way possible. You know what I mean, sorry, English is my second language!
Companies prefer these novice people over trained professionals because they can pay a lot less.

As far as IT and software is concerned, this is no easy job and definitely not for an average joe, we all know that. One has to be pretty strong technically to understand the specifications, leave out writing codes. We are at the edge of unparalalled complex business demand and increased complexity of software design getting more and more complex every day with standards like web2 and distributed architecture. Now how far do you think hires like these can go even with specialised training. They put an intense pressure on these employees forcing them to learn the technologies and they simply don&#039;t have foundations to build on. It&#039;s like pushing a business graduate to cram up Quantum Physics!

If you happen to visit any of the Indian IT firms, you will come to know about an amazingly bad work culture where people always find their excuses for an unfinished job. Some companies are run like pumping stations where you come, you sit, you roam around, you have your lunch, you chat with the lady sitting in the next cubicle or on the Internet, ok it&#039;s 4:30 in the evening, let&#039;s go home half an hour early. The word &quot;proactive&quot; is not a part of their dictionary.

Consequently, these Indian IT companies are losing quality of the service in the domestic market as well as in the international market. God only knows how they meet their deadlines even after hundreads of reviews of code and scary programming practices. Companies like Tata Consultancy Services, Tech Mahindra are losing projects in india as well (they have got a very bad remarks from clients like SBI, Central Bank of India and many others and they are steadily losing projects even in Indian markets for hiring these lamers).

Some US companies have taken back their projects to US after finding out the truth about Indian IT Companies A lot of them have found out they can manage to achieve a productivity 2 to 6 times greater than what it was when outsourced to India!

Bottom line-------
 DO NOT OUTSOURCE YOUR PROJECTS TO INDIA, ITS GOING TO COST YOU MORE IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY AND YOU WILL LOSE GOOD WILL OF YOUR CUSTOMERS. DO NOT FEED THESE LAMERS WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT IT STAFF IN YOUR COUNTRY UNEMPLOYED!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I work in one of the Big IT companies in India, but now I am sick and tired of their hiring policies. Read on<br />
Software companies in India are recruiting &#8220;Lamers&#8221; who don&#8217;t have any experience&#8230;, wait a minute, they don&#8217;t even know a thing about computer science. Don&#8217;t believe me? Let me give you an example, a person hired straight from college as a software developer by a Big Indian IT Company (A Really Big One.. They have got the BT project&#8230; you know..!), he has been chosen as a developer on java, he came crying to me asking he can&#8217;t figure out how to create an ODBC connection (in windows).  Can you believe this? I explained him the process with screen-shots from modemhelp.net( cause I was running Linux on my system so..). More surprises, he couln&#8217;t differentiate Linux from windows (it was obvious, he had never ever seen a non-windows system in his life so far), so when he saw my terminal (I had Open-suse  with default KDE running on my system with a terminal/console open), he asked me to show him how to create the ODBC connection from the control panel&#8230; what a Lamer! People selected for .Net have no idea about what an web-server is and what is IIS.</p>
<p>People are hired from non-IT background and sometimes non-computer background (students from civil, mechanical, or electronics engineering) on the basis of merit tests where they ask questions like in the banking jobs(??). This is done intentionally so that they can force these lamers to work for peanuts for almost 12 hours a day regularly. Most of the time, lamers are overworked and underpaid and they don&#8217;t have the skill to finish the job in an efficient manner. They are always frightened of losing their jobs and so they manage to finish their responsibility in every irresponsible way possible. You know what I mean, sorry, English is my second language!<br />
Companies prefer these novice people over trained professionals because they can pay a lot less.</p>
<p>As far as IT and software is concerned, this is no easy job and definitely not for an average joe, we all know that. One has to be pretty strong technically to understand the specifications, leave out writing codes. We are at the edge of unparalalled complex business demand and increased complexity of software design getting more and more complex every day with standards like web2 and distributed architecture. Now how far do you think hires like these can go even with specialised training. They put an intense pressure on these employees forcing them to learn the technologies and they simply don&#8217;t have foundations to build on. It&#8217;s like pushing a business graduate to cram up Quantum Physics!</p>
<p>If you happen to visit any of the Indian IT firms, you will come to know about an amazingly bad work culture where people always find their excuses for an unfinished job. Some companies are run like pumping stations where you come, you sit, you roam around, you have your lunch, you chat with the lady sitting in the next cubicle or on the Internet, ok it&#8217;s 4:30 in the evening, let&#8217;s go home half an hour early. The word &#8220;proactive&#8221; is not a part of their dictionary.</p>
<p>Consequently, these Indian IT companies are losing quality of the service in the domestic market as well as in the international market. God only knows how they meet their deadlines even after hundreads of reviews of code and scary programming practices. Companies like Tata Consultancy Services, Tech Mahindra are losing projects in india as well (they have got a very bad remarks from clients like SBI, Central Bank of India and many others and they are steadily losing projects even in Indian markets for hiring these lamers).</p>
<p>Some US companies have taken back their projects to US after finding out the truth about Indian IT Companies A lot of them have found out they can manage to achieve a productivity 2 to 6 times greater than what it was when outsourced to India!</p>
<p>Bottom line&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
 DO NOT OUTSOURCE YOUR PROJECTS TO INDIA, ITS GOING TO COST YOU MORE IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY AND YOU WILL LOSE GOOD WILL OF YOUR CUSTOMERS. DO NOT FEED THESE LAMERS WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT IT STAFF IN YOUR COUNTRY UNEMPLOYED!</p>
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